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Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?

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Offline 8thBeast

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Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« on: Thursday July 19, 2018, 06:20:03 PM »
I felt it would be helpful to re-examine how “God is Love.”  Because everybody enjoys hearing about how “Jesus is a God of love,” and undeniably many sermons entitled “God is love” have brought much needed comfort to the heart of the truly repentant. Nonetheless, while these statements are certainly true, as believers we must remember that they are not complete statements of truth. An unwavering truth is that God is no respecter of persons and sometimes the holiness and righteousness of God requires a change in His posture with individuals, a concept some believers have a hard time believing. But consider the following two verses.

“And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and you shall be plucked from off the land that you go to possess it,” (Deuteronomy 28:63).

“After the number of the days in which ye searched the land . . . ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise,” (Numbers 14:34).


Certainly, God is a God of love, yet in Rev. 2:6 Jesus said “. . . this thou hast that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.” Again in Proverbs it says, “These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among the brethren.” Now, I am not trying to present God as a God of hate, just establish the fact that God is capable of hate.

If God’s people are to have true intimacy with Jesus Christ, coupled with a righteous boldness (not a religious cockiness), then we need a basic understanding of God’s precepts. Jesus conditionally told His disciples, “IF you continue in My word, THEN are you My disciples indeed; (THEN) you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” (John 8:31, 32). Jesus was not referring to the truth as certain “facts” which could liberate them. The truth He was referring to was Himself. Jesus said “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life; no man comes unto the Father except by Me” (John 14:6). Jesus Christ is the polestar of all truth. If we are going to be “set” free then it is Jesus Christ personally who we must seek to know, not just mere biblical and historical facts. For “if the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36).

While God is perfect in the administration of His love, the Bible does say He still “judges the righteous, and is angry with the wicked every day,” (Psalm 7:11). It is this foundational precept that gives us understanding as to why, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,” (Proverbs 1:7, 9:11).

Proverbs 8:13 says “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: [therefore] pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the forward mouth do I hate.” Proverbs 16:6 says “By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.” Therefore, if believers are to live harmoniously with God they must strive to live according to the scriptures, “perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” We must abhor sin and all unrighteousness, no matter how slight it’s deviation from the truth, for “ALL unrighteousness is SIN,” (I John 5:17). This at times is very hard to do since we are often so easily deceived by the pleasures of sin. Of course, this certainly does not mean we are to be hating “sinners,” but rather the sin that has found root in their lives and hearts as if it were hell’s own death grip on them.

To further clarify the attributes of “God’s love” a contrast needs to be made between our natural humanistic “love” and God’s “righteous love.” Humanistic love (due to man’s fallen nature) is both erratic and temperamental. It changes with circumstances or emotions and often ceases without any apparent reason other than loss of interest. Humanistic love rarely subscribes to logic and when found to be so; it is only aligned with the laws of God out of coincidence and not truly governed thereby. When shaken and unsettled, it usually can only be tranquilized by a self-favorable compromise.

Humanistic love usually has a high toleration of sin in another when something desirable for self might be obtained, or else their sins may not likewise be tolerated. If there is no personal profit to be had, then the response is usually judgment and criticism. “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these not having a law, are a law unto themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another” (Romans 2:14,15).

Contrary to fallen man’s own love, the love of God is not governed by His emotions, but is directed by His righteousness. This is clearly seen in Matthew 23:37, “0 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often I would have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold your house is left unto you desolate.” Had God’s love been controlled and subject to emotions, He would have forgiven everybody. He would have gathered them (with all their wickedness) unto Himself whether they repented or not. But God’s love transcends emotions and is founded in holiness and truth.

Likewise, our emotions are God given and can work for good when they’re used correctly as the expressions of our hearts and not the rulers of our lives. Paul instructed the Corinthians saying “the time is short: it remains that both they that have wives be as though they have none; and they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possess not; and they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.” Certainly Paul wasn’t forbidding marriage any more than he forbidding us to weep or rejoice. Rather, he was warning us not to allow ourselves to be controlled by our marital statuses, emotions, possessions, or the world.

If we are to fully answer God’s call to be holy as He is holy, we must cease to be ruled by our emotions and seek, ask and knock in diligent pursuit of knowing God and His will in our lives. We are to be ruled by His righteousness and live to fulfill His will, not our own. If we foolishly continue to indulge ourselves in the luxury of self-government we jeopardize our relationship with God an run the risk of being unfruitful.

2 Peter 1:8 - For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

“Righteous love” in one’s life is evidence of a contemplated surrender to God and His will. Since true love is governed by the authority of the Holy Scriptures, it is not easily swayed by human emotions, but still enjoys full emotional expression. This kind of holy love is conceived in our minds as a result of a personal conviction and revelation of God’s love for us, and birthed into being through the surrender of our hearts.

1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus reminds us that true love is undeniably evident by our obedience as we see in John and carries with it the promise of reward.

John 14:21 - "He that has My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loves Me: and he that loves Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him."
22 Judas said unto him, not Iscariot, "Lord, how is it that You wilt manifest Yourself unto us, and not unto the world?"
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man love me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.
24 He that loves Me not keeps not My sayings . . ."

Just like faith and hope, righteous love is based upon and therefore governed by God’s word, for God has said, “Come now and let us reason [intellectually] together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye are willing and obedient [surrender in your hearts], ye will eat the good of the land: but if ye refuse and rebel, ye will be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.”

Absolutely, God commands us to love one another and for that love to be effective it must be within the confines of God’s will as revealed by His word. We must remember that “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God,” and that faith “works by love,” (Ro. 10:17, Gal. 5:6). While we are to be longsuffering with immaturity, ignorance and other human frailties and limitations, we must not and cannot tolerate willful sin in ourselves or in each other. If one is overtaken by a fault, then those who are able to instruct must go and do so. If such a one defiantly rebels against God, he is to be rebuked. Should he repent of his wickedness, then let him be forgiven and embraced as a brother. If he doesn’t, he should be removed from the fellowship of believers for he has obstinately forfeited his fellowship with God, for what fellowship has light with darkness? None.

Nowadays, too many believers are being seduced into accepting a “feeling” as love. Because they found acceptance in a church social circle, they are deceived into believing a spirit of churchianity as true Christianity. Love is more than a feeling of warmth, such a feeling is often no more than emotional satisfaction. Since they “feel” good where they are, they are persuaded this is evidence of righteous love. Yet righteous love is maintains an uncompromising commitment to God, His precepts and His church. Remember it is not what we “feel” at a church that confirms truth, but what we hear, “For the word of God . . . is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Likewise, Mercy is too often presumed to be something it’s not. Mercy is a fruit of love, yet, like love for mercy to be effective and redemptive it too must be founded in the righteous judgments of God. People often mistake mercy to be a softness or tenderness exhibited toward someone, or they mistake longsuffering for mercy. These are actually compassion, kindness and gentleness. Mercy is not suffering the consequences of one’s sins which they truly deserve. It is the pardon for an offence which as been exposed, acknowledged, and repented of.

Before the mercy of a pardon can happen however, there needs to be a conviction of righteous judgment first. This too is where many mistake God’s judgment for His wrath, but these are two distinctly different events. God’s judgment is the accurate evaluation of one’s life in light of His righteousness. Should one be found contrary to God as revealed through His word and yet truly repent, pardon is then possible inasmuch as the law was satisfied by the shedding of Christ’s blood. But, when one is evaluated to be a transgressor and refuses to turn from his wicked deed, Jesus Christ re-dying again on ten thousand crosses would not save him, all he has to look forward to is wrath, or “judgment without mercy.”

One must acknowledge his transgressions for what they are with a true godly sorrow and by departing from his sin. The only time an immediate departure from sin may not be required is if it is due to ignorance as a direct result of natural (not willful) Christian immaturity. Therefore, the believer is instructed to diligently seek the will of God in their lives.

2 Peter 1:5 - And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that [or why] he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

If we are to effectively love one another so as to minister to and build each other up, we must each devote ourselves to the knowing of both God and His word. We must never compromise our convictions of truth for the sake of church unity, yet we must never cease to labor in love for it. We must dig deep and seek the solid ground of truth, not common ground. While we are commanded to be both submitted and committed to each other in the fear of the Lord, we are not to be not loyal. Loyalty to a man will eventually result in a sinful compromise. We can not afford to “love” anyone, family or otherwise, so much that we unwittingly cast away our pearl of great price. Yes, we can and should suffer long with the frailties of each other and/or with the fallen condition of one seeking the truth, but not with a stubborn hypocrite. Effective and redemptive mercy always requires a surrender to the true evaluation of one’s condition by both the Spirit and Word of God.

Remember the biblical truths

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6)

“He that rebukes a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flatters with the tongue.” (Proverbs 28:23)

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.”
(1 John 51,2)
« Last Edit: Thursday July 19, 2018, 10:42:17 PM by 8thBeast »
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #1 on: Monday February 11, 2019, 09:16:59 PM »
The Lord rejoicing over us to do us good, and rejoicing over us to destroy us...these are synchronous events. Doing us good is the declaration of who he is, the persona we should follow. And when we do follow to be like him, his very nature destroys that thing in us that is not like him. Wrapped up in a bundle of love we find the twelve manner of fruit. Pick one, say kindness. Followers learn to be kind in every possible situation they are tried in. As an example, If I am unkind when stuck in rush hour traffic, the Lord teaches me how to be kind in rush hour traffic. He is kindness, he says, Be like me. So we express kindness and destroy the unkindness in that same process. No man can serve two masters simultaneously. But can at different times which makes us hypocrites until complete cleansing has occurred...a garment without spot or wrinkle.
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #2 on: Monday February 11, 2019, 11:39:50 PM »
The Lord rejoicing over us to do us good, and rejoicing over us to destroy us...these are synchronous events. Doing us good is the declaration of who he is, the persona we should follow. And when we do follow to be like him, his very nature destroys that thing in us that is not like him....

Sounds nice, but that is not what these verses, and the specific one as well, clearly states.

De 6:15 (For the LORD thy God [is] a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
 De 9:25 Thus I fell down before the LORD forty days and forty nights, as I fell down [at the first]; because the LORD had said he would destroy you.
 De 9:26 I prayed therefore unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, destroy not thy people and thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed through thy greatness, which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand.
 De 10:10 And I stayed in the mount, according to the first time, forty days and forty nights; and the LORD hearkened unto me at that time also, [and] the LORD would not destroy thee.
 De 28:63 And it shall come to pass, [that] as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought;
and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
« Last Edit: Monday February 11, 2019, 11:42:50 PM by 8thBeast »
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 12:28:55 AM »
It isn’t clearly stated because the Old Testament is a hidden wisdom written according to types & patterns. Patterns which cannot be seen by reading the letter of the word. The letter of the word is the top layer. Anyone can read it and get the natural understanding. There are multiple layers of  spiritually discerned understanding beneath. I was just sharing one of those layers with you.
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 01:34:00 AM »
It isn’t clearly stated because the Old Testament is a hidden wisdom written according to types & patterns. Patterns which cannot be seen by reading the letter of the word. The letter of the word is the top layer. Anyone can read it and get the natural understanding. There are multiple layers of  spiritually discerned understanding beneath. I was just sharing one of those layers with you.

Actually, you either made up a layer and distorted the clear intent of God's judgment against Israel for their forsaking Him or are simply the product of erroneous teaching. However, I am incline to think the former and not the later since you stated "Anyone can read it and get the natural understanding." Such a statement one tends make in a vain effort to exalt themselves above others with their false spirituality. You know, like Paul said to Timothy about such people who, "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."

Scripture clearly teaches that the "types and patterns" pertain specifically to the prophetic actions of the ceremonial aspect of the Levitical Law that pointed to Jesus's passion... and that "types and patterns" were not with the moral part of the Law which defined sin and the wages thereof and the benefits of humble obedience.

Heb 9:8 - The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
 9
Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:1 -
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Ro 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.)
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 08:30:14 AM »
Four wise men study scripture. One says scripture is theology. The second says scripture is history. The third says scripture is religion. And the one that is last says scripture is an autobiography.

Which of the four wise men has understanding?
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Offline 8thBeast

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 12:21:30 PM »
Four wise men study scripture. One says scripture is theology. The second says scripture is history. The third says scripture is religion. And the one that is last says scripture is an autobiography.

Which of the four wise men has understanding?

Rebel Shepherd,

Men have been “studying scriptures” and professing themselves to be “wise men since the days when Moses was led by God to write the Pentateuch. From such there has sprung a whole spectrum of scholars who have continued to argue with each other over their vain conclusions… and so it will be so till The Truth Himself returns for His Wife who “has made herself ready.”

Yet it is obvious, while each of your “four wise men” may be right in their proclamation of what the scriptures are, be it “theology, history, religion, or an autobiography,” they would only be right in part if they did not embrace the other’s aspects of truth regarding Holy Writ.
But before I continue, I must state that the very nature of your reply is clearly a sidestepping and refusal to answer my previous post, and more of a way of justifying your words by indicating that many people can view Holy Writ differently and still be “wise men.”

That takes me in thought to Jesus having to deal with the Essenes, Herodians, Scribes and Pharisees, all of which stood in their own particular camp of deduction; and in which I am sure they had even within their camps much disputations on each other’s correctness. To such, Jesus reproved them saying “You make search in the holy Writings, in the belief that through them you get eternal life; and it is those Writings which give witness about Me. And still you have no desire to come to Me so that you may have life,” (BBE). This reproof, given both in love and disgust of the Blessed Savior, was because these “wise men” were more concern with their own positions and power to win converts to their side then they were about knowing God and being known by Him. For even these men were told “If any man thirst let him come unto Me and I will give Him drink,” yet clearly, they would not.

And there in rest the answer, men will never find the truth until they humble themselves before the Most High God. For understanding is something given by God and not found of men. Only when men seek God with their whole hearts without reservations to His will or commands will He place the understanding within their path to be found as they persevere seeking to find “Him.” For as God said to Abraham, “I am your exceeding great reward.”

Men who are rebels at heart are restricted from finding the truth, for their pride is an offense to God and He withholds His light from their dark heart. Thus, of such “wise men” it is as Jesus stated, “…because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand and in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which says, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and SHOULD BE CONVERTED, and I should heal them.”

God Himself tells us in Isaiah “For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy place, with those who have a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, even to revive the heart of the contrite ones.”

Understanding is greater than both wisdom and knowledge, for understanding is necessary to allow wisdom and knowledge to truly convert a person so that they can be made a partaker of the divine nature, which is the true hope of the Gospel; to be dead to the rebellious old man, crucified with Christ, and alive in Him as a “new creature.” Such is why Proverbs admonishes us all that “Wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom; but all your getting, get understanding. For how much better is it to get wisdom than gold! And to get understanding is rather to be chosen than silver!”

That is why Jesus said to His disciples, “Unto you IT IS GIVEN TO KNOW the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to others it is parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.” For the things of God that pertain to our pleasing Him, that men might truly know and come to Him, are revealed to those who recognize God Himself and His Son Jesus, as that end for which all the quests are taken by true knowledge seekers; even to know Him even as they are known. For it is these “wise men” who recognize that “the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field, the which when a man has found it, he hides it and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.”

Wisdom and understanding, which are necessary for the proper application of knowledge, are gifts of God given to those who understand that as creatures of the Creator’s creation they are obligated to align their hearts, will, mind and spirit to the purposes and glory of God and Him alone. For all those who do not receive (again a gift from God who must grant repentance) a love for His truth, well to such is the curse of being given over to strong delusion and into the captivity and embracement of a lie. These are the strongholds of the adversary by which he entangles men in their religious pride and secures them a place in hell, which prior to entering their damnation they will in mass cry out “But Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name and in Your name have cast out devils, and in Your name done many wonderful works?”

But Jesus will answer these unwise men with “I never knew you. Depart from Me all you that work iniquity.” And what is their iniquity? It is their failure to receiving a love for the Truth, that empowering that comes from the indwelling of Gods Spirit enabling to commit themselves wholly unto God. Instead they religiously continue down their path of destruction doing what is right in their own eyes, and justifying themselves because they search the scriptures and have become scholars of “theology, history, and religion.” These are they which Jesus said, “You are they which justify yourselves before men. But God knows your hearts, for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.”

Perhaps, you should pray about being another type of shepherd instead of a self-declared rebel.

1 Peter 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 John 3:19 - And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.  20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.  21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.  22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.  23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.  24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

« Last Edit: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 12:26:22 PM by 8thBeast »
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 02:56:01 PM »
Team,

Your question wasn’t side stepped, it was answered directly. The mind of Christ, that is to say, the bride of Christ is able to discern. Wisdom is the Father. Understanding is the Son. These two together, wisdom and understanding are the Spirit of the Lord. When wisdom is “given” it is required of men to “take” what wisdom brings forth. Otherwise entry back into Eden is not possible. But as wisdom comes down to us, we are able to rise up in this understanding and all things become possible.


Four wise men gave answer to the people regarding scripture.

The Theologian said, The scriptures are all theology and philosophy for thinkers. He then spoke in cunning and carefully crafted words, describing the depths of theology and philosophy.  The people said, Who is like this wise man? He speaks to us from the deep and shows us the dark thoughts of man.

The second, a Historian answered and said, The scriptures are the history of civilization. And he spoke by memorization of the order of events occurring to mankind. The people said, This is a wise man. He tells forth of our Father past, and of kings; of both signs and seasons, and of days, and of years. He shows us times of old to this very day.

The next, a man of religion, said, The scriptures are a religious book. It is this book which has been given to us so we can teach you our religion and carry you into our fold. The people replied, Such worldly wisdom this man has. He has well learned his craft from the generations before him: Insomuch that in word and in deed, even the garment he wears is the same as those of former times.

The fourth wise one spoke and said, The scriptures are an autobiography. He then shewed us it was so. His words were those of one having authority, speaking quickly and seamlessly, using brightly colored language.  The people cried, This wise and understanding one we will follow! His words show that he has stretched himself beyond that of the others.  He began by laying a foundation for a place where we can rest sure in the end; and has given hope whereby we can hang on until the changing of times.

—-

If you think I’m lost and rebellious then by all means stop being a hypocrite, and do as the Lord teaches and pray for me.
« Last Edit: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 03:04:33 PM by The Rebel Shepherd »
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Offline 8thBeast

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 05:12:41 PM »
Your question wasn’t side stepped, it was answered directly.

It would appear we undoubtedly have different comprehension of answering questions directly…

The mind of Christ, that is to say, the bride of Christ is able to discern. Wisdom is the Father. Understanding is the Son. These two together, wisdom and understanding are the Spirit of the Lord.

Surely, with those who have sought the Lord and have purposed to understand His precepts, that with time they should have their senses exercised whereby they would be able to discern good and evil.

Hebrews 5:10 - Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.  11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing you are dull of hearing.  12 For when for the time you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.  13 For every one that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  14 But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Now as for you asserting that “Wisdom is the Father” and “Understanding is the Son,” such a statement only goes to show your insistence on promoting your ideology and rather than sound theology founded upon Holy Writ. For while none can argue that the Father possesses all wisdom, it is the Son that has the testimony of scripture as being both the “wisdom” and “power” of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24 - But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.  25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty
.

Nowhere in Holy Writ can you find scripture stating  or supporting that “Understanding is the Son,” but rather that the Son possesses wisdom and understanding. Still, somehow you have deduced that “These two [the Father and the Son] together, [as] wisdom and understanding are the Spirit of the Lord.” I inserted the brackets simply to reveal to you my comprehension of what I think you are attempting to communicate; however, I might be wrong. Nonetheless, the Spirit of the Lord is not a composite, nor is He separate from the Father and Son as scripture clearly teaches us that there is but one Father, one Lord, and One Spirit.

Isaiah 11:2 - And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

Ephesians 4:4 - There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


When wisdom is “given” it is required of men to “take” what wisdom brings forth. Otherwise entry back into Eden is not possible. But as wisdom comes down to us, we are able to rise up in this understanding and all things become possible.
True, wisdom is given to men and men ought to receive it. For we see how scriptures states that wisdom is ever crying out to humanity.

Proverbs 1:20 - Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:  21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city She uttereth her words, saying, 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?  23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Proverbs 3:13 - Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.  14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.  15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.  16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.  17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all herpaths are peace.  18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.


Four wise men gave answer to the people regarding scripture.
The Theologian said…
The second, a Historian answered…
The next, a man of religion, said…
The fourth wise one spoke and said…
Nice story.

If you think I’m lost and rebellious then by all means stop being a hypocrite, and do as the Lord teaches and pray for me.

Ah, and here the accusations set in with your calling me a hypocrite…
I assure you that I have already prayed for you. Have I travailed as one giving birth to a new convert? No, but I surely wouldn’t engage someone who has addressed me first without pray.

Concerning your being lost and/or rebellious, I cannot say. Maybe you’re just having a bad day and thus you just hastily hurled out the insult. But I ask you this, did Jesus establish the offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers simply so they could pray for the lost and rebellious?

I think not. Rather it is their obligation to endeavor to instruct those whose manner of faith and theology are not only unsound, but in truth a hindrance to themselves.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Does that sound like the Apostle Paul telling Timothy, “Just pray for them son?” Of course not. But when people confronted with things in their lives which they cannot justify or defend or which makes them uncomfortable, they usually want to condemn the other person, or just dismiss them with a “Well, pray for me then.” It’s really nothing more than a religious way of saying like the rebellious did to Isaiah, Jeremiah and Amos, “Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things.” Basically, just a dismissive way of saying “I don’t want to hear what you’re saying, just go away.” But that again reveals the fruit of a harden heart, the kind which Jesus said that “seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not.”

No, rather Paul told Timothy to “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”

Now, Rebel Shepherd, you need not reply. But do know I am pleased to continue to engage you that the Lord might be glorify by both laboring in the praised Berean spirit and being willing to longsuffering in doctrine towards the hope of both hearing what the Spirit is saying to the Churches in these final days. For is that not the desire of the Spirit of Truth and unity? That God’s people would be of one mind and heart and all speak the same thing?
Peace.
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 05:56:06 PM »
Team,

Is calling out a hypocrite an insult? Or is it only an insult to the hypocrite? Were the Pharisees and scribes insulted when they were called hypocrites?Of course they were, they were hypocrites. They heard what they could not comprehend with their carnal minds. They were educated and couldn’t comprehend that an uneducated one might offer insight. Like you, you’re educated. I’m not educated in the world system. So In responding to your initial post, you reply, “sounds nice, but that’s not it” and all you’ve done since is attempt to catch me in my words because they don’t agree with your education. I share a parable taught by the Lord and you say “nice story”. And this because you don’t know what else to say because it is spiritually discerned, something education does not offer. Do you know that a parable is an exercise for your good? The entire Old Testament is a parable. It’s intended to take us away from the carnal mind and into the mind of Christ. My story was foolishness to you, neither could you understand it. I perceive your thoughts and intent very clearly. But rather than resist, I encourage you to use it as a means to move from the old way of thinking into the new way of thinking...which way is in you, and available to you, if so be you choose to seek it out.

Father + Son = Holy Spirit...and that’s a team of two or three that cannot be overcome.
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Offline 8thBeast

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 06:06:03 PM »
Team,

Is calling out a hypocrite an insult? Or is it only an insult to the hypocrite? Were the Pharisees and scribes insulted when they were called hypocrites?Of course they were, they were hypocrites. They heard what they could not comprehend with their carnal minds. They were educated and couldn’t comprehend that an uneducated one might offer insight. Like you, you’re educated. I’m not educated in the world system. So In responding to your initial post, you reply, “sounds nice, but that’s not it” and all you’ve done since is attempt to catch me in my words because they don’t agree with your education. I share a parable taught by the Lord and you say “nice story”. And this because you don’t know what else to say because it is spiritually discerned, something education does not offer. Do you know that a parable is an exercise for your good? The entire Old Testament is a parable. It’s intended to take us away from the carnal mind and into the mind of Christ. My story was foolishness to you, neither could you understand it. I perceive your thoughts and intent very clearly. But rather than resist, I encourage you to use it as a means to move from the old way of thinking into the new way of thinking...which way is in you, and available to you, if so be you choose to seek it out.

Father + Son = Holy Spirit...and that’s a team of two or three that cannot be overcome.

Perhaps you can provide me the book, chapter and verse where this profound parable is in Holy Writ that I might more prayerfully consider. Surely, an illuminated teacher as yourself wouldn't withhold such from another. After all, you are encouraging me "to use it as a means to move from the old way of thinking into the new way of thinking."

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 06:35:39 PM »
Yes, it’s so, the Lord taught that parable. The Lord taught it to me and I shared it with you. Now that you have it the Lord will teach it to you also if you have the unction to pursue its meaning.

The Father in you and the Son through you is the Holy Writ. 

Like Jeremiah and Baruch, one spoke the other wrote. Like a Paul and Timothy, one spoke the other wrote. Like the Father in you and the Light you shine towards others. The Father speaks and you do.

There’s only one name in the Book of Life brother and it’s not your name or my name. It’s the Name of the Lord.

That which is heard + that which is seen = that which is seen and heard...

Invisible Love + the visible expression of Love = the replication of Love in earth.

...and that’s a team of two or three that cannot be overcome.
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.

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Offline 8thBeast

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 06:38:32 PM »
BTW Rebel Shepherd, I am not educated, not in the traditional sense. I dropped out of school in the 9th grade with a D-minus average and left home @ the age of 15. I was fairly streetwise in those days, because I lived on the streets. However, Jesus Christ has indeed made me a new creature and filled me with His Holy Spirit, and the life I now live is in seeking to know Him greater and making Him known.

I have now religious training or education, I simply read my Bible and pray and walk in the light of His word and in fellowship with Him. So, apart from where you were wrong about me being "educated," can you show me and others where you are right about me being a hypocrite?
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

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Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 06:56:51 PM »

Yes, it’s so, the Lord taught that parable. The Lord taught it to me and I shared it with you....

Oh, so it is not from God's word as written. Well then, Rebel Shepherd, you'll have to do better than that if you truly wish to teach me or anyone things that are truly light and life. For if it cannot be clearly verified in the sure word of prophecy, how do I not know you are deceive and thus a deceiver? You know, one of Satan's ministers coming as a preacher of righteousness?

2 Corinthians 11:13 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Peter 1:16 - For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts, 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Get that Rebel Shepherd? Peter was telling us all about how he was there at the mount when Jesus was transfigured and saw it with his own eyes, and then he heard God speak audibly from heaven bearing witness to His own Son, and yet he says even more credible than his (Peter’s) own testimony it that “MORE SURE word of prophecy where unto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.”

You do know don’t you, that more important than I knowing God has spoken to you is you knowing whether or not you have been deceived.

Here’s a test, are you getting madder, or do you feel love for a brother?



That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.

https://gatesofthecity.wordpress.com/book-mystery-of-godliness-pdf-for-gates/

Re: Scripture says God is love, but is "love" God?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 07:18:07 PM »
You read religious books and/or listen to educated people that don’t understand scripture. These things have guided you somewhat into a passiveness into thinking the letter of the word is all there is. It’s not. The surface meaning of the word is what the education system teaches.

The reason I claimed you to be a hypocrite is because you love those that agree with the form of learning you have, but not those who don’t.  Your post was about WHO love is. I complimented what you wrote in a way you didn’t agree with and you immeadiately came after me.

And what I say to you now is the same as I said in the beginning (go back and read it please). God is kindness. Kindness is invisible. We can’t see kindness. But what we can see is the outward visible expression of kindness through you. And the outward visible expression of kindness towards others is the Son of God. This applies to all fruit of the Spirit. Fruit = Produce...that which the Good Spirit produces.

I can’t see forgiveness. I can see the visible expression of forgiveness through you. Is forgiveness seen? No, it’s invisble, it’s heard. Is the expression of forgiveness heard? No, it’s seen. These two together replicate forgiveness from the invisble heaven realm to the visible earthly realm. In earth as it is in heaven.

Forgiveness + expression of Forgiveness = Forgiveness.

Father + Son = ?

And who is the manifestation of the Father and Son? The Holy Spirit...otherwise known in Revelation as the man child.

Malachi 4:6
« Last Edit: Tuesday February 12, 2019, 07:22:14 PM by The Rebel Shepherd »
It cannot be disputed, those things we do are a direct result of the thoughts we follow. Jesus said, Follow me.